Revelation - Armageddon: Recent Comments

Comment on Notes on Revelation 17

Kevin J — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:36:25 GMT

Frankly I have not seen this passage as an elaboration of the sixth and seventh plagues, but I now see how indeed that makes sense. Will look into this more in the future. I am encouraged in your comments that the woman is actually the same woman of chapter 12, but having had an extreme makeover. I have come to the same conclusions years ago. She has become a prostitute for frolicking with the powers of the earth. This transformation fits with an overall theme of apostacy and remnant we find in the O.T. By the fact that remnant is mentioned in 12:17 hints at an apostacy. Chapter 17's woman is the manifestation of that apostasy predicted in 2 Thess. 2:3.

Are the waters just political power? I see it as more people power. The earth dwellers are supporting her, as is the beast, or the political powers. Maybe the waters and the beast are one and the same?

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Kevin J — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:26:44 GMT

I would think it well to include in the notes on the frogs that they, in the Egyptian plagues, were the last plague counterfeited by the Egyptian magicians, thus it could be implying a final great counterfeit for that time.

Comment on Notes on Revelation 17

Paul W — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:58:41 GMT

What's your point?

Comment on Notes on Revelation 17

Dennis Neufeld — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 16:53:10 GMT

I agree with you that Rev. 22:18-19 concerns the 'words' of the book, but it also concerns the interpretation of those words in the following regard: If you say that your interpretation is given directly by the Holy Spirit and your interpretation is incorrect then you are saying that God told you a lie, and that is blasphemy. This is the same as a prophet saying that they are of God and the prophecy that they state is later proven from Scripture to be false. However, if you make the statement before hand that this is your own individual interpretation and the reader must make their own decision then you are not held accountable for THEIR understanding, you are held accountable only for your own.

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Karl Wagner — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:25:30 GMT

R. J.
I think you may get a better idea if you read the new book, Armageddon at the Door, available at your ABC [or check out the online articles which appear in the book at www.thebattleofarmageddon.com]. The understanding of Armageddon is important because it is the context of the plagues along with the rest of the book of Revelation. As you mention in your post, "Personally, I am wondering what your fascination is with Armageddon? I thought it is clear that this event never happens because Jesus comes before it even gets started." Professor Paulien gives us the image behind it which helps us understand that while God/Jesus fights the battle, the message which is proclaimed concerns worship, and that message is given by His 144,000. The message here pertains to the Elijah message [see Rev 14:6,7] as illustrated through the Mt. Carmel showdown, of which Revelation's Armageddon derives it imagery from.
As for what hermenutic he might be using here, may I suggest the first book of this series, The Deep Things of God, which is a hermenutic on the book of Revelation. These two books should answer a lot of your qestions, and should 1) show that Jon is not being side-tracked by some ephemerial theology, but rather closing in to what pertains to Adventism and her end-time message, and 2)using hermeneutics very much in-line with Adventism's historical position concerning prophecy.
Your comments about Adventists not following God's advice (not defined here) but rather intimating that Jon is leading Adventists away with false teachings is entirely self-serving and troubling, echoing the "I have the Truth!" of the traditional side of our church, of which these books are capable of curing such ignorance.

Comment on Study Armageddon!

R, J, Humpal, JD — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:09:48 GMT

Dr. Paulien, while it may be fun to construct another bible according to your opinions, it may also be dangerous, taking into consideration the warning for people not to add or subtract what is written therein. Perhaps it might be helpful to let us know what rules you are playing by in your interpretation of prophecy? After all, how can one judge a game without knowing the rules?

Personally, I am wondering what your fascination is with Armageddon? I thought it is clear that this event never happens because Jesus comes before it even gets started.

As for “JC’s” comments, I don’t see may Adventists following God’s advice. Could it be because they are consumed with false teachings handed down generation to generation, extending to the first Universal Church? Who has a brain left who can think for themselves when our schools and churches keep turning out ‘cookies made by cookie cutters’? Where are all the ‘agitators’ that Ellen White said were necessary for bringing new truth as found in chapter four of Counsels to Workers. Could it be we (the Adventist Church as a whole) have gone to sleep much like the Ten Virgins?

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Karl Wagner — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 08:25:51 GMT

I am excited to know that we may acutally have a Bible with footnotes prepared by Adventists for Adventists. While I love my Zodhiates Key Word Study Bible, its footnotes favoring the dispensational poistion, inaite immortality and Reformed theology do not add a great deal of information for me.
I find your comments somewhat helpful for chapter 6, less helpful for the earthquake. References to other places in revelation to an earthquake raises questions. Are they one and the same earthquake?
I imagine you may help us to apply biblical principles (Hermeneutics) where appropriate. Maybe the earthquake notes is such a place. Also some word study or syntax of the original language, such as in Rev 3:21, where the KJV says, "To him that overcometh" which suggests that we have "arrived" while the Greek is really in the present participle and more rightly might read "To him who is overcoming" a great picture harking back to Christ's question where he asks if He will find faith in the world when He comes? [Luke 18:8].
In verse 16 of your footnotes, your reference to Mt Carmel might also emphasis the showdown image more along with a reference to the first angel's message of calling worship to creator God as opposed to the false "baal" system of chapter 13, implying the idea that the 144,000 give the Elijah message in the last days thereby fulfilling the Malachi text declaring that before Messiah comes, Elijah will prepare the way [Mal 3 & 4:5,6].
I think we have an opportunity here to really present some of the hidden things not so readily apparent to us regular folk. Even customs and manners can be helpful for some texts, or some history and geography, such as the name 'armageddon which means the Mountain of Meggido[n] is a reference not to a mountain "called" Meggido; but rather it's a reference to the mountain of Meggido, of which Mt Carmel is that mountain, because it is the larger of the three mountains along that chain, and brings to mind the showdown Elijah had with Ahab which will be played out again on the last day.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is this. While less is more in many cases, here, more, may actually be desireable. Short of an actuall commentary that is. Boy you have a tough job!

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Kemboi — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:31:19 GMT

The most revealing thing that set Jesus murderous plot, that eventually led Him to His death was His view of Sabbath and relation to God. It was this duo issues that were at the heart of His enemies. To this issues we find what triggers His death plots and final death.

Could these issues be what we see in the Book of Revelation, namely worship (who is truly God) and Sabbath (when to worship)?

Kemboi

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Kemboi — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:25:31 GMT

Having listened and read your past commentary on the book of Revelation, it all seems natural that I would see same comments in your new-fun work.

Kemboi

Comment on Study Armageddon!

Seven Star Hand — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:58:44 GMT

Greetings Jon,

Here are the keys to understanding the symbology of these ancient texts? The time for the removal of ignorance has arrived. The referenced links will take you to all of my blogs and websites.

Here">http://sevenstarhand.blogspot.com/">Here is Wisdom

Peace...