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How Much Trust Do I Need?

Conversations About God 3:5

Now how much “faith” do we have to have? Must we trust completely, or even perfectly, to be right with God? Couldn’t we get away with a little unfaithfulness now and then? Have you husbands ever said to your wives, “Wife, how much could I cheat on you and this marriage still survive?” Would that make any sense? What if a friend should say to you, “How much could I lie to you or hide the truth—and this friendship still last?” Frankly, that would make no sense at all.

Does God need to leave a little room for unfaithfulness in our relationship? Is a “perfect relationship” asking too much of us? Does it make sense to even ask the question? When we “cheat” on God, and cheat we have, God remains our constant friend. But we may be destroying our side of the friendship. You see, if what God wants is friendship, a loving, trusting relationship; then what He wants is obviously not a requirement demanded, but an absolutely voluntary experience.

This long debate regarding faith, works and obedience has troubled saints through the years, but it could be so readily resolved if we looked at the Biblical word for obedience, which is hupakoē (four syllables, one for each vowel). The first part, “hupa,” means “under.” And the second part, “akoē” (three syllables), means “hearing.” The Greek word literally means “listening under.” It describes a humble willingness to listen. If we truly love and trust God, we’ll be willing to listen. It wouldn’t make sense for us not to listen to one we love, trust and admire.

Now could God’s expectation of our willingness to listen be one hundred percent? Our performance may be weak. We may stumble as we leave our doctor’s office. But a willingness to listen? Is that demanding too much of us? Is it too much to say, “Don’t cheat there. Let that be one hundred percent!” Is it expecting too much of us to ask that we be completely committed to listening humbly to our Friend?

Let’s go back to Hebrews 11, the chapter that opens with a definition of what faith is. It surely is encouraging to read about the heroes and heroines of faith celebrated in that same chapter. Hebrews 11 uses the stories of the Old Testament as illustrations of what faith is and what it is not. Look at Hebrews 11:31-32:

By faith the prostitute Rahab escaped the doom of the unbelievers, because she had given the spies a kindly welcome. Need I say more? Time is too short for me to tell the stories of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets (NEB).

Was Rahab’s life at the time she welcomed the spies in perfect harmony with God’s will? Was Gideon’s trust in God perfect when the angel came to him (remember how he needed at least two miracles before he was willing to listen)? Was Samson’s life an ideal you would teach to your children? Was David’s life a model of Christian perfection? Yet Hebrews 11:39 goes on to say, “These also, one and all are commemorated for their faith” (NEB). Is God too demanding? With all their faults and sins, God holds these people out to us as models of being willing to listen. They were far from perfect, but evidently, at least at some point in their lives, they loved and trusted God and were waiting for Him to heal the damage done. And God puts them in Hebrews eleven for our encouragement.

Surely no Bible story is more encouraging than the story of the thief on the cross. What did he do for Jesus to respond with those wonderful words in Luke 23:42-43? “And he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ And Jesus said to him, . . . ‘You will be with me in Paradise'” (RSV). Jesus was hanging on the cross between two thieves (the Greek word tells us they were not just burglers, but violent criminals) who were cursing and swearing, and also mocking Jesus along with the crowds.

Then something happened to one of these thieves. He listened to Jesus say “John, please look after Mother when I’m gone” (John 19:25-27). Perhaps the thief thought of his own mother, and that really touched him. He had heard Jesus saying “Father, forgive them” (Luke 23:34). Then he learned from the placard above Jesus’ head that the one saying “Father forgive them” was “The King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38). So the thief thought to himself, “If Jesus really has a kingdom, and rules over it with forgiveness, that’s just the kind of kingdom someone like me needs.” I’m a thief. I need to be forgiven. I wouldn’t be safe in any other kingdom than a kingdom where the king says, “I forgive you. I forgive you.”

So he turned to Jesus and said, “Jesus, if that’s the kind of kingdom you’re going to reign over, I’d like to live in it. Please, could you remember me?” I suspect he was a little tentative in saying that. He didn’t know how Jesus was going to respond. But then he heard the words that confirmed his trust. “Yes, I’d be pleased to remember you.” And then the thief died, with his tithe unpaid, and probably all kinds of unclean things in his stomach. He never made restitution to anyone for his crimes. He was never baptized. He never kept a Sabbath. But he’ll be in the kingdom! The next moment of consciousness after his death will be in the resurrection, and he will come face to face with that same person in the middle. Jesus will say to him, “You have a lot to learn.” And the thief will say, “If you say so, that’s all right with me.”

If anything should happen to any of us tonight, I would hope that we would die God’s trusting friend. Because if we do, we will arise in the next moment of consciousness face to face with God. And we will not be afraid, because we will know the truth about God. We will trust Him, know Him, love Him, and all those other things. We will have been set right. And if He should say to us, “You know, there’s a great deal for you to learn,” we would say in response, “I’d be pleased to listen, because I trust and admire You. I want to be Your friend.”

You see, faith is just a word we use to describe a relationship with God as with a person well known. The better He is known the better this relationship may be. Faith implies an attitude toward God of love, trust, and deepest admiration. It means having enough confidence in God – based on the more than adequate evidence revealed – to be willing to believe what He says, to accept what He offers, and to do what He wishes – without reservation – for the rest of eternity. Anyone who has such faith would be perfectly safe to save. This is why faith is the only requirement for heaven, and for salvation.

Is Trust Really Enough?

Conversations About God 3:4

Doesn’t it seem too little, however, that God would only ask for trust? Isn’t it also necessary to know Him? To love Him? To obey Him? Don’t we need to repent? To be reborn? To be converted? To be justified? To be sanctified? Don’t we even need to be perfect? The list of expectations gets so long it’s no wonder that it discourages many people from really wanting to have a right relationship with God. But don’t be scared by that list. Understood in the larger view of what went wrong and what needs to be set right, every one of those items I have mentioned is an integral part of a single, transforming experience that is made available to us all. It was never supposed to be so complicated, or divided into so many different parts.

Let’s take, for example, the expectation “to know God.” What’s the difference between knowing God and trusting Him? A classic text for this is John 17:3: “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent” (RSV). As we noted in the previous chapter, to really know someone is to love, trust, and admire them. To know God is to trust Him, to love Him and to admire Him. That word is even used for the intimacy between a husband and his wife. I can hear God saying, “If only My children really trusted Me. If only they really knew Me. If only they really loved Me. If they were only willing to listen, and let Me help them, I could perfectly heal all the damage done. Everything would be right again. And we could keep it right forever.” Now that’s the whole list, if you want to put it in simple terms. Is there anything He couldn’t do for us if we honestly regarded Him that way?

I often hear God saying in the Bible, “How I wish My children could be My friends once again. And they could see Me as being their friend. And then all would be well.” Now the Bible describes at least one such friend of God, Moses. Notice what it says in Exodus 33:11, 17: “The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. . . . And the Lord said to Moses, ‘I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name’” (NIV). What an honor to be listed in the Bible as God’s friend! And can you see how being a friend is the same as being known? To know someone is to trust them, and one trusts people who are known and who have behaved in a trustworthy manner. So trust includes being loved and all those other things.

Now surely trust in God, and friendship with God, is no “leap in the dark,” as some people describe faith. It is not safe to trust someone we do not know. So God doesn’t ask us to trust Him as a stranger. “So faith (trust) comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ” (Rom 10:17, RSV). “Faith comes from what is heard,” because they didn’t have copies of the Bible the way we do. They had to listen as the scriptures were read. And as they listened they heard the truth. They heard the evidence. And some were won to repentance and to trust, particularly when they heard the truth revealed by the Son of God Himself.

David surely knew what God wanted of His children, so that peace could be restored everything be set right. Look at Psalm 51 (selected from verses 6, 10, 16 and 17):

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward being: therefore teach me wisdom in my secret heart. . . . Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me. . . . For thou hast no delight in sacrifice; were I to give a burnt offering, thou wouldst not be pleased. The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. (RSV)

This is what God wants, in order to have peace once again in the family. Because that means we are willing to stand humbly in the presence of our God and ask “What must I do to be well, to be saved?” And He says, “You need a new heart and a right spirit.” And then we say, “I’d be very happy to have one. Please give me one soon.”

Hosea understood what God wanted, to have peace in the universe again. Look at Hosea 6:6: “It is true love that I have wanted, not sacrifice; the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings” (Phillips). In Hebrew parallelism, the second line of the sentence simply reaffirms or enlarges the point in the first line. The parallelism in verse 6 shows that true knowledge of God and love for God mean the same thing. That’s what God wants. Hosea goes on in verse 7: “But they, like Adam have broken their agreement; again and again they have played me false” (Hos 6:7, Phillips). They cheated. How much security can you have in the family when some of the children are playing false?

Do you remember what Jesus told Nicodemus had to happen before he would be safe to save? John 3:3: “Jesus answered him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God'” (RSV). “Born again” means a new heart and a right spirit, exactly what David was saying in the fifty-first Psalm. Jesus didn’t say “Unless you are forgiven.” Or “Unless you are justified (have your legal standing adjusted), you cannot enter the kingdom.” He said “Unless you be changed and become a trustworthy person, a teachable member of My family, you will not be safe to admit into the hereafter.”

How can anyone tell they have really been reborn, and have genuine trust and faith? How can anyone know they have been put right with God and all is well? This is a question which was much debated in the early days, and is still debated to this day. In fact, a leader in the early Christian church wrote an entire book to clear it up, a book that has troubled many saints: It’s in the Bible, the book of James. Note James 2:14, 19, and 21-23:

My brothers, what use is it for a man to say he has faith when he does nothing to show it? Can that faith save him?. . . . You have faith enough to believe that there is one God. Excellent! The devils have faith like that, and it makes them tremble (James 2:14, 19, NEB).

The devils believe God is powerful but there is no friendship between them and God.

Was it not by his action in offering his son Isaac upon the altar, that our father Abraham was justified? Surely you can see that faith was at work in his actions, and that by these actions the integrity of his faith was fully proved. Here was fulfillment of the words of Scripture: “Abraham put his faith in God, and that faith was counted to him as righteousness” (James 2:21-23, NEB).

According to James, false faith is useless, but a genuine faith is demonstrated by one’s actions. But then in the following verse is the puzzling word “counted.” If you take the legal view of what’s gone wrong in the universe, you can hear the cash registers ringing as you read this verse. But the word “counted” has another meaning besides its use in accounting or math: It can mean “considered,” or “reckoned as.” Reading it this way God was saying, “Abraham trusts Me, and that’s good. That’s what I want. That’s what it means to be right.” Evidence that this is the correct reading is found at the end of the verse, “Elsewhere he is called ‘God’s friend'” (James 2:23, NEB). When you are God’s friend all is right, all is well.

What Is Faith Really?

Conversations About God 3:3

Perhaps the famous verse in Hebrews 11:1 will help us. First, the familiar wording of the King James (KJV): “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Does it help to know that faith is a substance? Or that faith is the evidence of things not seen? That would suggest that if you have faith in something, that’s evidence that it is really so. But if you have faith that there’s a man in the moon does that prove there must be one? That doesn’t make sense! But do we sometimes use faith this way? Does Hebrews 11 encourage us to do so? Let’s look at those two words, translated “substance” and “evidence.”

Let’s take the word for “evidence” first: the Greek word is elengchos. It’s a noun that comes from a verb used for the work of the Holy Spirit. When the Spirit comes, He will convince you. He will convict you. He will settle you into the truth. A better translation than “evidence” would be “conviction.” Faith is conviction.

Now let’s look at the other word, “substance.” The Greek word it is based on is hupostasis. We get the English word hypostasis from that, although most of us rarely use it. It doesn’t help much to know that faith is a hypostasis, does it? But does it help to think of faith as a substance either? Actually, the Greek word hupostasis means “that which stands under,” and that’s where the “sub” and the “stance” came from. The English “substance” is from the Latin equivalent of hupostasis. That may be very good Latin, but in this case it’s not very good English.

Not until the turn of the century did scholars discover what this word really means. As archeologists were digging in the sands of Egypt, looking for manuscripts primarily, they found some that were title deeds to property, business agreements, covenants; and the title on each of these documents was this very word: hupostasis. And it dawned on them that in Hebrews 11 the apostle was saying that faith is an agreement, a covenant. Covenants are all about relationship, what people need to do if they are to trust each other in business. God offers us many things, but first He presents Himself. If we decide that we can trust Him, that we would like to “do business” with Him, that trusting relationship is faith.

So how should we translate this word hupostasis? Let’s look at three different translations: “Now faith is the title-deed of things hoped for” (Montgomery). “Now faith means that we are confident of what we hope for, convinced of what we do not see” (Moffatt). “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see” (NIV). Can you see the idea of conviction or certainty coming through? That’s the meaning of faith. This is further clarified by the previous context of Hebrews 11:1, which you find in 10:35-39 (remembering that there were no chapter divisions in the early days):

Don’t throw away your trust now—it carries with it a rich reward. Patient endurance is what you need if, after doing God’s will, you are to receive what he has promised. For yet a little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. But my righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him. Surely we are not going to be men who cower back and are lost, but men who maintain their faith for the salvation of their souls (Phillips)!

Faith is our conviction. It’s being certain about things that at the moment we cannot see. There is a background to that verse in Hebrews, Habakkuk chapters one and two. There Habakkuk says to God, “Why don’t you do something” (Hab 1:2-4)? And God says, “I am. But you wouldn’t believe it if I told you” (Hab 1:5). And Habakkuk says, “I’m going to wait and see” (Hab 2:1). And God says, “If what I have predicted seems slow, wait for it; it will come. My righteous One will live in trust” (Hab 2:3-4). That famous verse, “the just shall live by faith (Hab 2:4),” is not discussing forgiveness or justification. The verse is saying that the one who is right with God will trust Him and be willing to wait. That’s the kind of trust and right relationship with God that really counts. And when we come to Paul’s use of the same phrase in Romans 1, (chapters 8 and 16 of this book), we’ll want to remember that Habakkuk is the background for it.

The angels had such trust, at least the loyal ones did. They also had questions! But they said to God, “We trust you enough that we’re willing to wait,” and they waited all the way to Calvary for some of the answers to their questions. They heard the promise to Adam and Eve that God was going to do something, and they were willing to wait because they trusted God. This certainly helps us to understand “salvation by faith” and “righteousness by faith.” Faith is trust in the way God chose to save us. We’re not saved by faith. Faith does not save us, God saves us. But God can only save those who trust Him.

Like a physician, God stands ready to heal all the damage done. But He cannot force us to be well. If we don’t trust Him enough to listen, to cooperate, and to let Him heal the damage done, there’s no way He can heal us. Physicians cannot heal rebellious patients who stay away because they think the doctor is a quack. Only when there is trust in the physician can healing really take place.

All God Asked of a Jailer in Philippi

Conversations About God 3:2

Seeing trust as a central issue in the universe helps explain Paul’s very brief reply to the jailer in Philippi. An earthquake brought down the doors of that jail (Acts 16:25-26). The jailer was afraid that the prisoners had escaped, in which case he himself would be executed. But when Paul called out to him, he ran in and fell down at the feet of Paul and Silas (Acts 16:27-29). He then brought them out of the jail and earnestly inquired, “What must I do to be saved?” At least “What must I do to be safe?” Paul did not reply, “If you have the time, I have 20 lessons for you. As we sit here in the rubble of the jail, I’ll lead you through the doctrines of the church.” No, all Paul said was, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” So we need to clearly understand what Paul meant by that word translated “believe.”

We often go to great lengths to explain the difference between belief and faith. Of all the illustrations I’ve heard to explain the difference, the one that impressed me the most was the story of the man who strung a cable over Niagara Falls. A preacher described how a crowd watched the man crossing over the Falls on the cable, pushing a wheelbarrow in front of him. Upon his return, he turned to the crowd and said, “Do you believe I can do that again?”
A man in the crowd replied, “Yes, I believe you can.”
“Then climb into my wheelbarrow.”
“Not on your life!” said the spectator.
The preacher telling the story would then say, “You see, he believed he could make it across, but he didn’t have faith.”

The difference between belief and faith matters in the English language, but there is no such difference between belief and faith in the Bible. There is only one word for both and that word is pistis. You see, the original conversation between the jailer and Paul was in Greek. And that’s the reason these Bible versions read differently.

Let’s look at Acts 16:30, 31 in several versions. The first reading is from the King James Version (KJV): “Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.'” But in the New English Bible (NEB) it reads, “Put your trust in the Lord Jesus. . . .” The Berkeley version has; “Have faith in the Lord Jesus. . . .” All three translations are based on exactly the same Greek word. In English the word pistis means belief, faith, trust, confidence. And the versions vary, just for variety.

Among these options, we’re most familiar with the word “faith.” As Christians we talk about it a great deal. But what is faith? What do we mean when we say to a person “Have faith,” or “You should have more faith,” or, “We’re saved by faith,” or, “Righteousness by faith”? Faith means so many different things these days that we almost need another word. The most notorious definition of faith is the one given by a small schoolboy. He said, “Faith is believin’ what you know ain’t so.” You see, in some people’s minds, if you’re prepared to believe what “you know ain’t so,” that’s real faith.

Now, most of us wouldn’t go that far. But we might say, “Faith is believing something for which you have insufficient evidence,” because if you had sufficient evidence, you wouldn’t say “I accept that by faith,” you would say, “I know.” Does that mean that the more we come to know God, the less faith we’ll have? When we actually stand in His presence will we say, “God, I see you now, and that’s the end of my faith? I’ll never believe in you again, because now I know you”?

Chapter 3: “All God Asks Is Trust”

This blog begins chapter three of the book in process Conversations About God. It originated as a series of lectures of Graham Maxwell in 1984. After each lecture Maxwell took written questions from the audience mediated through the pastor of the Loma Linda University Church at the time, Lou Venden. This marvelous series has never been put into book form, so I am attempting to do so and sharing the results in progress here with permission from the Maxwell family. The words that follow are Maxwell’s oral presentation, edited by me.

In the previous chapter we considered what went wrong in God’s universe. If we can understand what went wrong, we are in a better position to understand what needs to be set right, and what it would take to set them right and keep them right for eternity. We will also be better able to understand what we need to do (if anything) in order to be set right, and enjoy the “rightness” of the universe once again.

It was surely apparent from the biblical description of this controversy in God’s family, that there was a breakdown of trust and trustworthiness—even to the point of war in heaven, as Revelation describes it (Rev 12:7-9). That war spilled down to this planet, where we experience a continuing misunderstanding and distrust of God. Not that we’ve all become irreligious, but that we’ve allowed ourselves to be deceived by the adversary. And even many who worship , worship a false picture of God—with all the hazards that follow; because we tend to become like the one we worship and admire.

There can be no real and lasting peace in the universe until trust and trustworthiness have been restored. That’s the reason for the title of this chapter, “All God Asks is Trust.” All that God asks of the loyal angels is trust. All that God asks of even damaged sinners is trust. Because where there is mutual trust and trustworthiness, there is perfect peace, perfect freedom, perfect security. All is right; all is well.

What matters most is for us to trust God enough to be willing to listen, to stand humbly in His presence and ask “What must I do to be saved? What must I do to be well? What must I do to be safe?” In the beginning God created the entire universe. He is able and willing to heal all of the damage done. There is no substitute for trust. All the generous and gracious provisions of the plan of salvation are of no avail if we don’t trust God enough to let Him do for us what He’s so eager to do.

Questions and Answers (2:4)

The theme of chapter two of Conversations About God by Graham Maxwell is what went wrong in God’s universe, in other words, what is sin and how did it mess everything up? After the lecture, Maxwell took questions from the audience mediated through the pastor of the Loma Linda University Church, Lou Venden (1984). Edited by Jon Paulien.

Lou: This question also concerns the previous chapter. “Could you explain within the larger view the text ‘without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin’ (Heb 9:22)? Is the word ‘remission’ here used with a different meaning than the common medical interpretation that an illness is not cured or gone, but is simply in a state of inactivity without symptoms? I’d hate to think that Christ’s shed blood only ‘inactivates’ the rebellion, but doesn’t really cure it.”

Graham: That question is a sermon in itself. On the matter of “without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin,” that will be covered in the chapter on why Jesus had to die (chapter 8). But I’d like to comment on the second half of the question, the remission of sin. “Remission” in the Bible is not a medical term. If sin were only remitted, we would be in a sorry state and our infections would get into the hereafter. And our rebellions would continue.

The actual word translated in some English Bibles as “remission” means forgiveness. According to Hebrews 9:22 God actually sent His Son to “forgive” sin. The best translation is really “without the shedding of blood there’s no forgiveness.” But God sent His Son to do even more than that, Jesus came to do away with sin (Heb 9:26, NIV). God is not through with sin until it has been eliminated. But these texts do raise the question, Why is blood necessary? And that we will treat most seriously in a later chapter.

Lou: I’d like to return to a question we talked a little about in the previous chapter. “If we say that God has already won the war, why are we still here? What is God waiting for? Shouldn’t the war be over?”

Graham: We have a whole chapter on what God is waiting for (chapter 18). But since it came up here, it would be good to address it briefly now. When Satan and his followers were cast out of heaven there was victory of a sort, but not much of one. There were so many questions yet to be resolved. Peace had not been confirmed. Even the loyal angels had their questions. Getting sin out of heaven might seem “the real victory.” But it was no victory for our heavenly Father. It was only when Jesus died that it could be said, “It is finished.”

When Jesus returned to heaven on resurrection Sunday, He found the universe celebrating that He really had won the war. In the book of Revelation, the heavenly throng says over and over again, “You’ve shown Yourself to be merciful and just and good and righteous and holy” (see Revelation 5:12-13; 15:3-4; 19:2). “You have the victory” (see Revelation 3:21; 5:5-6)! So in a real sense the war was won then, in the death and resurrection of Jesus. The angels and the inhabitants of other worlds have paid such close attention to what Jesus revealed in His life, teachings, suffering and death that they got the message. And they couldn’t wait to tell Him on resurrection Sunday, “You’ve won our loyalty. As far as we’re concerned, You have won the war.”

Unfortunately back on this planet we didn’t get the message. Jesus invited three of the disciples to watch some of the evidence in Gethsemane. And the brethren slept through it all (Matt 26:36-46; Mark 14:32-42; Luke 22:41-46)! He repeatedly invited them to come to the cross, and see the most important answer of all (Matt 16:21; 17:22; 20:19; Mark 8:31; 9:12, 31; 10:34; Luke 9:22; 17:25; 18:32-33; 24:7). The universe watched. But where were “the brethren,” as He called them? Eleven of them were off in deep depression. Only one of them was there. And that’s why John was the disciple who wrote the most significant things about why Jesus had to die.

So God has been mercifully waiting for this one tiny planet of people to make up their minds. We know there are awesome events to take place here before Jesus comes. And until we are as settled into the truth as the angels are, God will not let the closing events come. He puts them off, and He mercifully waits. That is what God is like. He gives His people all the time they need to become settled into the truth about His character. God waits until His people understand. You can trust a God like that!

Lou: But Graham, doesn’t the Bible speak often about the wrath of God? Can you really trust someone who is angry a lot?

Graham: We will have more to say on that in the chapter on why Jesus had to die (chapter 8). For now let me just say that if you take all sixty-six books of the Bible and look at the references to God’s wrath all the way through, you’ll find so many places that explain God’s wrath as simply God’s turning away in loving disappointment from those who do not want Him anyway, thus leaving them to the inevitable and awful consequences of their own rebellious choice. God’s anger is not like our anger. And we will have a lot more to say about that later.

Lou: Could you say a word or two to introduce the chapter which follows? What is the next topic?

Graham: The next topic is “All God asks of us is trust.” The basic point of that chapter is that God can and will save all who trust Him. When it comes to salvation there are no limits on the part of God. He can readily heal the damage done. The crucial issue is whether or not we will trust Him enough to stand humbly and teachably in His presence and ask, “What must we do to be saved? What must we do to be well?” The problem is not with our creator, the problem is with us.

Lou: It seems to me that in this chapter, Graham, you have emphasized that problem. We need to understand the problem before we can fully understand the solution. In a sense, everything hangs upon how we understand the nature of this sin problem. And in the next chapter we will talk more about the solution.

Graham: Very much so. A correct understanding of sin will make a big difference as we continue our conversations about God.

Questions and Answers (2:3)

The theme of chapter two of Conversations About God by Graham Maxwell is what went wrong in God’s universe, in other words, what is sin and how did it mess everything up? After the lecture, Maxwell took questions from the audience mediated through the pastor of the Loma Linda University Church, Lou Venden (1984). Edited by Jon Paulien.

Lou: Why do you feel that the tree in the midst of the Garden was the only place Satan could tempt Eve? And how was God’s commandment not to eat of this tree protective?

Graham: It’s true that there’s no text that says Satan could only approach Adam and Eve at the tree. But if you had been the devil, which tree would you have chosen? Wouldn’t you have gone to the tree of life? But Satan never met them at the tree of life. He only met them at the tree where they were not supposed to go. So apparently he was limited to that one tree. And he knew they had been told not to go there. So I’ve connected two facts together; 1) God only warned them about that particular tree, and 2) that’s exactly where Satan met them. So he didn’t have free access to the entire garden. That means the tree was put there to protect Adam and Eve. Satan’s freedom to tempt was limited to that tree. I think
that’s the only logical inference.

Lou: This next question ties in a bit with that. “Does evil exist in order to allow human beings to be able to choose between good and bad, to use our own judgment?” That sounds like evil is something good because it gives us a chance to grow. What do you think of that?”

Graham: Fortunately, Paul dealt with that in a very potent way. In a sense it is true, the more evil we have been, the more gracious God has been to us. And so Paul says “Why don’t we be a little more evil then, so He’ll look more gracious” (Rom 3:8; 6:2)? Paul raises the idea twice and then condemns it twice as a terrible thought (Rom 3:7-8; 6:1-2)! It is true, the worse we have behaved, the more graciously God has stooped to meet us and love us and treat us so graciously. Well, if the blacker the backdrop the more brilliant God’s righteousness appears, why don’t we paint Him a blacker backdrop? Paul says that’s a terrible thought. In fact, in Phillips’ translation it says “What a ghastly thought.”

So I don’t think we should suggest that our sinfulness and our evil has helped God. Rather, He has taken an emergency and turned it into something good. He’s the only one that looks good in this. Let’s not think we are serving Him by being a little more wicked so that He can show how good He is. We’ve been bad enough without trying.

Lou: All right, here’s another question. “If a person is sincere about religious things but sincerely wrong, whose fault is that?” And I suppose implicit behind the question is, “What will happen as a result? Will the person be punished or suffer consequences from that?”

Graham: I like that question and what it implies. I do believe that if one sincerely takes the wrong path, one will sincerely arrive at the wrong destination. That’s true.

Lou: So whose fault is it then?

Graham: Keep in mind that if we are truly sincere; if we’re really willing to listen, God has not left us in the dark. As John says, Christ is the light that enlightens everyone who comes into this world (John 1:9). Paul even says that there are Gentiles who know nothing about the Bible, who know nothing about God’s law and instructions. But they do by nature the things that the law requires, and they show that the law has been written on their hearts (Rom 2:13-16). And I love the paragraph in Desire of Ages that tells about heathen who worship God ignorantly; to whom the message was never brought by human instrumentality. Instead, they’ve heard the voice of God speaking to them in nature (DA 638). They’ve done the things that the law requires, which is love. And they’re recognized as God’s children. God is not going to abandon anyone on this planet who is sincerely and humbly willing to listen. He will not leave them in the dark.

Now it’s a great privilege to be the one who gets there with the good news, but sometimes somebody else gets there first. Think of missionaries who have been shipwrecked as they’re about to arrive on an island to somehow “turn those cannibals into Christians.” As they’re drowning out there by the reef, here come these cannibals paddling their canoe. So the missionaries say farewell to each other; they know what’s going to happen shortly. But instead, the cannibals put them in their canoe and take them to the beach and revive them. When they are finally comfortable the missionary says, “Let’s assemble these people and give them the truth.” And he starts to preach to them about love.

His missionary wife nudges him and says, “Wait a minute. These people risked their lives to rescue us from the reef!” The minister replies, “But nobody’s preached to them yet.” He forgot Romans 2. The Spirit of God was there before the missionaries came. God has always approached people “in many and various ways” (Heb 1:1). So I would say that if one is really sincere, one will not wind up sincerely wrong. If one is “sincerely wrong,” one has probably been saying no to truth for a long time. True sincerity is open to evidence and open to correction. True sincerity is humble. False sincerity is often simply lazy.

Questions and Answers (2:2)

The theme of chapter two of Conversations About God by Graham Maxwell is what went wrong in God’s universe, in other words, what is sin and how did it mess everything up? After the lecture, Maxwell took questions from the audience mediated through the pastor of the Loma Linda University Church, Lou Venden (1984). Edited by Jon Paulien.

Lou: Did God give Satan a chance to repent? After all, you’ve said that questioning God wasn’t a problem. God welcomes our questions. How did things go too far?

Graham: Did Satan get a chance to repent? There’s no text that says he did. But don’t you think that the God we know and trust would give Satan ample time? Has He not always been this way? Isn’t God unwilling that any of His children should perish (2 Pet 3:9)? According to Peter, God is so patient that some people will wonder if He’s ever going to come (2 Pet 3:-10, see also Romans 2:4). So we have a consistent picture of this all through the Bible. God always waits and waits, granting us every opportunity to repent.

In fact, on the authority of the prodigal son story, I would say that had Satan repented, God would have fully reinstated him into his original position. Remember that when the prodigal came back he said, “If you’ll just let me in as a hired servant, I’d be very pleased.” And the father said, “We don’t have any second class sons in our family. You’re either fully home or not.” The father even gave him a blank check at the local bank when he gave him that ring. The father was so generous it really bothered the older brother. So I would say that if Satan had repented, the God of the prodigal son story would have taken him back and fully reinstated Him.

Lou: Here is a question we discussed in the previous chapter, but perhaps we ought to touch on it again. “If God knew that Lucifer would be such an instigator of trouble upon the human race, why did He create him?” I think this is a question that baffles many.

Graham: As we touched on in the previous chapter, I don’t like to limit God’s foreknowledge. So I like to believe that when God created Lucifer, He knew that Lucifer would cause all the trouble. But God also knew what He would do about it. So as He created this magnificent person, He said, “I know this is going to cost me, and I’m willing to pay.” And I think that is truly wonderful, that He would go ahead, knowing that Lucifer would one day cause all the trouble.

Does that make God responsible for sin, then? No. God has never created anybody imperfect. His creations are perfect. Lucifer had no bent to evil whatever. He allowed pride and then sin to rise up in himself. God created him perfect, but He also created him free. And this is important. It means that when we say we love God, it isn’t because we’re programmed that way, it is a free choice. But that freedom means we can also choose to rebel. We can also say to God, “We hate you.” Adam and Eve demonstrated that. When they sinned in the garden it was because they were free to sin.

Lou: That means Satan didn’t go wrong because of some malfunction in the way he was made, like an automobile that has to be recalled. He was perfect. But with that perfect freedom to make choices, all kinds of consequences were possible.

Graham: Yes. But God is in no way responsible. In fact, that leads me to something really wonderful about God. He has paid the price for this rebellion as if it were His fault. He has assumed the responsibility, even though it was not His fault. I think it’s because freedom means so much to God, He would rather go this costly way. He would rather not take some shortcut and program us so we would all behave, like robots. We could have been programmed to line up and say how much we loved Him. It would be like listening to a recording or watching a video with actors pretending to love someone. And that wouldn’t please our intelligent God.

Questions and Answers (2:1)

The theme of chapter two of Conversations About God by Graham Maxwell is what went wrong in God’s universe, in other words, what is sin and how did it mess everything up? After the lecture, Maxwell took questions from the audience mediated through the pastor of the Loma Linda University Church, Lou Venden (1984). Edited by Jon Paulien.

Lou Venden: Here’s a question that takes us back to the previous chapter and helps set the foundation for everything we are trying to do in this book. “You said that the book of Revelation was especially directed to the Christians living at the time when it was written. Can you explain that a bit more? I have always understood, or been told, that it has special relevance to the present day church instead. What do you think about that?”

Graham Maxwell: It’s true, I believe the book of Revelation was written first for the Christians of that time. They were discouraged, wondering why the Lord had not yet come. There was heresy in the church, opposition to leadership, and persecution. They needed the message of Revelation to point them to the larger view. They needed to know that they were caught up in a great controversy, but that God had already won the war.
We need it too. The book was written just as much for us as for them. We live at a time when we are faced with many of the same problems. And we need the same insight they did. Not so much a message about dates and events to come, interesting and helpful as that might be. Rather, we need the major message of the book of Revelation: Look a little higher, take a larger view of things. Realize that God has won the war. When we understand that message, our assignment and privilege is to go out and tell people that He’s won the war, and how He has won it. Supported by the message of this book, we can act more like players on a winning team instead of so often being on the defensive.

Lou: Are you saying that the meaning for us now may be even clearer when we understand its impact back then?

Graham: It’s the same message, but from our perspective in history, it should mean even more to us. God didn’t have a message for them and a schedule of events for us. I believe the consistent message of the book for all readers is to take the larger view of things. Set everything in the context of the great controversy. That perspective makes everything so much more significant. And it is a reading of Revelation that is positive and optimistic.

Lou: I have a question regarding the beginning of the rebellion in heaven. “Did any other angels question God before Lucifer did? If they didn’t, why didn’t they? Is it possible that another angel will question God again in the future? Since it happened once, why couldn’t it go on happening?”

Graham: I don’t know of any text that suggests other angels did what Lucifer did. The Bible only tells us a little of what happened. You remember that John said, “If I were to record everything that Jesus said and did, there wouldn’t be room in the world for all the books that could be written” (John 21:25). It’s enough for us to learn of Lucifer’s questioning rebellion and the consequences. Will this ever happen again? What about raising questions reverently? Of course, I think we’ll do that for eternity. How else could we learn? God is not afraid of reverent questioning at all. I think He’s complimented by it. But the Bible assures us that the kind of rebellion that arose with Lucifer will never arise again (see Nahum 1:9). Not because our freedom has been taken away, but because a costly basis has been established to provide us the answers we need. Jesus will always be there in His human form to remind us of all the answers God gave at the cross. And we’ll remember. And that will guarantee peace for eternity. But it will not take away our freedom.

How God Wins Us Back to Trust

Conversations About God 2:5

Millions of angels and men have broken faith with God. They have shown that they cannot be trusted. But has this changed our God? Can God still be trusted? Specifically, can God be trusted to even want us to come back? Is God still the kind of God who can be trusted to pay any price to win us back? That is the question that stirred the apostle Paul when he wrote Romans 3:3-4: “What if some of them did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all” (NIV)! Some versions say, “By no means” (ESV, NRSV). “God forbid” (KJV). “May it never be” (NASB). And we have the whole biblical record of all God has done to set right what has gone wrong.

God even sent His Son to deal with sin. Look at Romans 8:3: “What the Law could not do, because human nature was weak, God did. He condemned sin in human nature by sending his own Son, who came with a nature like our sinful nature, to do away with sin (GNB).” What the Law could not do, God did by sending his own Son to do away with sin. Or as the Jerusalem Bible puts the same sentence (Rom 8:3): “God dealt with sin by sending his own Son.”

What does it mean to deal with sin? It depends on what sin is. If sin is distrust and its consequences, forgiveness alone will not heal the damage done. Forgiveness does not do away with sin. For there to be lasting peace in God’s universe, trust must somehow be restored. Questions must be answered. Satan’s accusations must be met. God must be seen to be righteous, and infinitely worthy of our trust. And so Christ came to set things right. That is why He died; a subject we’ll spend a whole chapter considering (Chapter 8).

Look at Paul’s explanation in Romans 5:1: “Now that we have been put right with God through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (GNB). Notice the phrase “put right” or “set right.” That’s based on the Greek verb that’s usually translated “justified” or “being justified.” (Greek: dikaioô) I love how the Good News Bible translates it, “put right.” We’ll go into this more deeply in a later chapter.

There are at least three ways of looking at what went wrong in God’s universe as a basis for our continuing discussion. And the crucial point is that God looks different in each of these three ways. The first of these views is very widely held beyond the bounds of Christianity. The statement of the problem goes something like this: Because we have broken God’s rules, we have offended Him. He is very angry with us. The crucial question then becomes: What can human beings do to appease God’s anger so that He can find it in His heart not to destroy us, but rather forgive us and bless us once again?

There is another view that’s widely held, sometimes within the bounds of Christianity. The statement of the problem goes something like this: We have broken God’s rules, and thus we are in serious legal trouble. Law and justice demand that God should destroy us, or (in some versions of this view) even torture us for eternity. The crucial question then becomes: Can anything be done to make it legally possible for God to forgive us, and not destroy us, while still being just in His own eyes and in the eyes of the onlooking universe?

Then there’s a third view that is not so widely held on this planet, but I believe it is the most widely held view throughout the universe. In this view the statement of the problem goes something like this: We have sinned. We have allowed ourselves to be deceived by Satan’s lies. And so we have turned away from the true God to many substitutes. And the results have been disastrous. Left alone we all would die. The crucial question then becomes: Is there any way that Satan’s lies can be corrected? Is there any way that the truth about God and His government can be made crystal clear? Is there any way that unquestionable evidence can be provided, that God is not the kind of person His enemies have made Him out to be? Can some of us rebels be won back to trust, and so be saved and healed?

Could I ask you which one of these three views you prefer? Which one of these gods do you prefer? Which one would you rather live with for eternity? Or does it really make any difference?